[ocaml-infra] Moving to lists.ocaml.org

Sun Feb 10 19:01:05 GMT 2013

A cursory search of the Google Apps site put an end to this idea.

http://support.google.com/accounts/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=182667

"There are two types of groups: groups hosted in your domain and 
groups hosted by Google. Groups hosted in your domain are limited to
the users in your domain."

We already have the infrastructure set up and available, so barring
any immediately helpful suggestions, we'll go for the mirroring
option...

-anil

On 10 Feb 2013, at 18:50, Ashish Agarwal <agarwal1975 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I second the idea of considering registering ocaml.org with Google Apps. No amount of work we'll ever do will compete with the features they already have. I'm not concerned about lock-in since Google is not going anywhere anytime soon, and if it ever does there will be a million people figuring out how to export your data.
> 
> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Sylvain Le Gall <sylvain+ocaml at le-gall.net> wrote:
> 2013/2/10 Anil Madhavapeddy <anil at recoil.org>:
> > Out of curiosity, why not do the opposite as I suggested?
> >
> > I notice that all the proponents of staying on Google Groups use GMail,
> > and all the opponents don't.  It seems reasonable to be subscribed to
> > Google Groups via the mirroring scheme that Google provides.
> >
> > The search is quite straightforward.  Use Google!  "site:lists.ocaml.org
> > opass" reveals the recent password-handling discussion, for example.  This
> > seems like a problem we need to solve on all the lists, not just Core, so
> > I don't see why some should on Google Groups, and others on
> > lists.ocaml.org.
> >
> > If people are desperate for this functionality, I could always register
> > lists.ocaml.org as a Google Apps service and host our lists via that.
> > However, I view Groups as something of a second-class service at Google,
> > and don't really trust it in the long term.  Consider the Data Liberation
> > Front group at Google conspicuously skipping this service from their
> > "export your data" campaign.
> 
> I think that registering ocaml.org or lists.ocaml.org as a Google
> Apps, can be a very effective way to build a pretty well managed
> architecture for websites, ML et al. Spend time on building server to
> test OCaml software, not managing spam and emails (I already did it
> for quite some time and I think it is not a very efficient way to
> spend my time).
> 
> To be honest I don't see the point of merging the mailing list of
> Core, if the source code don't move as well to the very same server. I
> don't see why the argument that applies to ML would not apply to
> Source Code... If it is not broken, don't fix it.
> 
> Concerning, the "long term" of Google Groups if anything should change
> you'll get a 6 months notice and will have plenty of time to move data
> to a new servers.
> 
> >
> > -anil
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:49:04AM -0500, Ashish Agarwal wrote:
> >> Personally, I prefer google groups over mailman too. The main reason being
> >> there is no easy way to search over mailman archives, which is a basic need.
> >>
> >> If having our own archives is the only issue, maybe just subscribe
> >> core at lists.ocaml.org to the current google group and disable direct posting
> >> to it. Thus, core at lists.ocaml.org remains behind the scenes but we have all
> >> messages on servers under our control.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:47 AM, Anil Madhavapeddy <anil at recoil.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > We can set up a mirror to the lists.ocaml.org mailing list as described
> >> > here;
> >> > https://support.google.com/groups/answer/46387?hl=en
> >> >
> >> > There are some unfortunate downsides to Google groups, but mainly down to
> >> > losing control of our archives (there's no facility to export them easily
> >> > to an mbox, for instance -- reconstructing it meant that the current
> >> > archives had to be scraped).
> >> >
> >> > Core's an important part of the future of OCaml, and we'd like to ensure
> >> > that we have a good central repository of the components that will make up
> >> > the OCaml Platform.  Part of that is moving things to  lists.ocaml.org.
> >> >  Spam is a concern, but we'll cross that hurdle when it becomes an actual
> >> > issue.
> >> >
> >> > -anil
> >> >
> >> > On 10 Feb 2013, at 10:42, Sylvain Le Gall <sylvain at le-gall.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi,
> >> > >
> >> > > I am not sure about the real advantage of moving the list. The current
> >> > > one doesn't have obvious problem and using mailman for
> >> > > lists.ocamlcore.org doesn't demonstrate me that mailman was better.
> >> > >
> >> > > Yaron, are you aware that using mailmam is probably more work day to
> >> > > day (not counting the amount of time you'll spend to do the migration
> >> > > itself). E.g, AFAIK spam filtering works pretty well on google groups,
> >> > > whereas it is almost absent in mailman... List archive is better
> >> > > presented on google group...
> >> > >
> >> > > I'll vote to stay on Googl Group, if my vote count.
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards
> >> > > Sylvain
> >> > >
> >> > > 2013/2/10 Sam <sdefabbiakane at gmail.com>:
> >> > >> Does this mean not using google groups anymore? If so, I'm rather sad
> >> > about
> >> > >> this. Having a decent web UI (which google groups does) lowers the
> >> > barrier
> >> > >> to participation by a lot. (And I, at least, much prefer it to getting
> >> > all
> >> > >> of the messages in my inbox.)
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Saturday, February 9, 2013 12:29:01 PM UTC+8, Yaron Minsky wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Small correction: the new address would be co... at lists.ocaml.org
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> y
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Yaron Minsky <ymi... at janestreet.com>
> >> > >>> wrote:
> >> > >>>> Now that ocaml.org has an operational listserv, I'd like to migrate
> >> > >>>> this group over to a mailing list on that site, namely,
> >> > >>>> co... at ocaml.org.  My current plan is to migrate the list over in a
> >> > >>>> week.  Does anyone object to simply auto-subscribing people who are
> >> > >>>> subscribed to this mailing list to the new list at ocaml.org?
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> y
> >> > >>
> >> > >> --
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> >> > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > > --
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> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > --
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Anil Madhavapeddy                                 http://anil.recoil.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Infrastructure mailing list
> > Infrastructure at lists.ocaml.org
> > http://lists.ocaml.org/listinfo/infrastructure
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